Need some Tough Love

[Amy]

I couldn't think of any other way to phrase it, but I need some serious, straight forward thoughts on a situation that occured this weekend, especially from dad's and people who have encountered similar situations.

My ex is mentally ill and has addiction problems. His visitation is supervised at his mother's house by his mother and based on sobriety and compliance with his health care providers. This friday him and his mother picked up the kids and on their way back home (about 70 miles away from me) their car started acting up. They got a hotel and were going to get the car checked out the following day. At 5:30 in the morning he took the car and left his mother and our two children at the hotel with no explination of where he was going or when he would be back. I was at work and did not recieve any of the messages until I took a break at 10:30, his mother was frantic. She is able to supervise, but due to her age, not able to run after a very active 4 year old that I am sure was bouncing off the walls at this point. She had no money and check out was in an hour and a half. I told her to see if they could extend the check out til 1:00, I would finish with my next client who had already arrived at my office and cancel the rest of the day and come pick them up. When I left work I got a call from her that my ex had shown up. I came to get the children and did not confront him infront of the children other than to pull him aside and tell him that this situation was not acceptable. I firmly believe that conversation can be saved for a time when the children are not around.

But when I was driving home and got out of the re-act mode, the severity of the situation hit home even deeper. I realized that I must do something, but I am not sure what. Contacting the police and filing charges for abandonment, contacting my lawyer to alter visitation, discuss the situation with him and his mother... how far do I go? Him and his mother act like it is no big deal that he abandoned them. It is my responsibility to keep them safe. I want them to see their father. They want to see their father. But it is my job to make the decisions to keep them safe. And when it comes to physical and emotional safty I think at the very least adjustments to visitation must be made. Because while it may be hard for them to see thier father less often and with more structure, it may be a safer alternative to keeping things as is and less emotionally damaging than removing visitation all together. Here is my big fear, that he won't do what he needs to do to continue to see them. I know that is not my problem to fix or reason enough to not respond to this situation, but it breaks my heart when my kids are hurt. And I KNOW that is why I must do something because the potential for them to be hurt worse is greater if I do nothing, it just doesn't make it easier. I am probably just going in cirlcles now, but that is why I can't get anything done at school today, because it is just going in circles in my head. I need that feedback from all of you so I don't feel as alone and to help me make positive decisions for my kids and myself. You are all so wonderful at that! Thank you.

On a good note, I did e-mail my lawyer as well this morning asking for his advice and it was the first time I have gotten to hang out with my kids on a weekend w/o work since christmas.

[Sabrina]

Like you already know, the safety of your children comes first. If that means you have to alter visitations or whatever, then do it. This time nothing too serious happened, but what if they next time something happens? You will be beating yourself up that you didn't do anything about it. IMO if the mother is up there in age, maybe she isn't suitable to even supervise. I understand that the kids want to see their father, but it has to be safe for them to do so. Hopefully your lawyer will have advice for you.

Good luck----

[Wendee]

Amy,
This is exactly the type of situation I fear if/when my ex "cleans up" and is able to regain visitation. I hope your lawyer will give you some good advice, but if it were me I would try my hardest to limit his visitations to a certain distance from the primary house. 70 miles away sounds too far, IMO. I know you don't want to keep him from visiting, but I think safety is top priority. Is there anyone else that can supervise? Is there any way he could stay in town instead of taking them so far away for the whole weekend?
Perhaps you can discuss his actions with him and his mother and let them know how severe the consequences will be? Not sure if that's an option or not, but if they are taking it very lightly it's probably because they expected you to blow up, and when you kept your cool they figured that it wasn't that big of a deal.
Sorry you have to deal with this... let us know how it all turns out.

[Erich]

I agree with your, and Sabrina's, thoughts on limiting visitation further. I know that you fear that he will respond negatively and not continue to see the kids. This will be his decision. If he is ready now he will remain clean and sober to spend the time with his kids. He may not be ready for that and only he can make that choice. Addictions are madness to live with and each addict will need varying type of help.

I don't think that charges need to filled but the visitation needs to be addressed. Documentation is the key. Again I agree with Sabrina that I would be concerned with his mother providing for a supervised visit.

Good luck Amy and I wish you the best. I know that this can be hard enough and adding the mental illness and addiction is tough. I would be interested to hear what your lawyer has to say if you are willing to share.

[Amy]

I totally feel like a discussion with him and his mother and alteration of visitation is in order, but I wasn't sure about the criminal charges. Thank you for all of your insight and alternative options. It is good to come to a problem with solutions and you all offered great ones. I will definitely share any advice my lawyer gives because that doesn't come freely very often, so I am all about giving it away. It seems sad that I continually need to hear that how much he sees his kids is his responsibility. So many times I feel like it is partly mine. And just as much effort as I put into making sure I am responsible and get to see my kids on a regular basis, he can do the same.

[Scott]

> I realized that I must do something, but I am not sure what.

I agree with ya, but it sounds like you're trying to control the environment to keep your kid safe... which involves controlling, restricting or manipulating your kid's father. Red flags: trying to control another person, no matter how good the reason, is almost always a terrible idea.

I do agree that this guy needs someone else to control him somewhat; he's dropping the ball. But that entity should not be you.

> Contacting the police and filing charges for abandonment, contacting my lawyer to alter visitation, discuss the situation with him and his mother... how far do I go?

All 3 are potentially good options.

First of all... ask him what's up. Don't listen so much to his words... but watch his behaviors. You know how this guy deceives and lies. You know his tells. Watch for them; don't try to believe him but simply listen and make a call. You don't need to prove he's full of crap if you feel pretty certain he's full of crap.

But do give him the chance to explain. His absence might've been something valid and required, and he did leave them with a responsible adult. You ain't his parole officer, and your suspicions of potential drug abuse don't give you entitlement to to try to control/manipulate him. That's the job of the law.

So my suggestion is to make his PO aware of his while-parenting absence. Let the PO be the authority figure and stay the heck out of it as much as you can.

> Him and his mother act like it is no big deal that he abandoned them.

"abandoned them" is a misleading term. From what you said above, he spent some time away after putting another adult in charge of them. You can slant it as "abandoning" him but he won't be slanting it that way when he explains it. And since abandoning involves not leaving someone responsible in charge... he's technically correct and you're technically incorrect. So he gets to claim that you're slandering him, and I'm sure he'll do so.

So, my advice: avoid the term "abandoning" 'cause it sounds overloaded with personal upset and baggage.

> It is my responsibility to keep them safe.

In a way, yes. But it's also your responsibility to define "safe" appropriately. "Left with his mom" is safe. "Left with his mom while using drugs" isn't. That ain't your investigation, though... that belongs to his PO.

> I want them to see their father. They want to see their father.

Awesome! That's a great thing to keep in mind. Don't bend any rules on account of it: if he breaks the law, work with the law to help him be accountable for that and thereby reduce the chances of it happening again and impacting your kids again.

And also, don't forget that his PO wants him to see his kids, and the courts want him to see his kids. They're not trying to rip a father away. They're simply trying to hold him accountable for breaking laws.

> But it is my job to make the decisions to keep them safe.

Yup!

Still, you don't get to claim that your definition of "safe" entitles you do do things that go too far. And just as you get to define "safe", there are some other people who get a say in what "too far" means. So my advice is to stay out of "keep the kids safe" whenever you can. Offload that power/authority over others to an entity that's designed to enforce it. The police. The legal system. His parole officer. Etc.

> And when it comes to physical and emotional safty I think at the very least adjustments to visitation must be made.

Not your decision, though. You can request or recommend such adjustments. If you think they should be made (I happen to agree with you by the way) then you should request/recommend that.

Don't try to make him jump through your hoops, though. I promise that ex-husbands resent that and respond poorly to it when they perceive that it's happening... even if their ex-wife doesn't think that it is happening. :)

> Because while it may be hard for them to see thier father less often and with more structure, it may be a safer alternative to keeping things as is and less emotionally damaging than removing visitation all together.

If you think the end effect on them is better if they have less dad-time since dad's a shmuck, then suggest that. But I warn ya: that's gotta be one of the most commonly-presented items from custodial single mothers: "dude's a shmuck; keep him away from my poor babies". So be sure you aren't too personally involved before you put that forward, or they'll sense that part of your request is vindictive and that hurts your likelihood of having your request granted.

> Here is my big fear, that he won't do what he needs to do to continue to see them.

Sounds like a valid fear! He very well might not.

But he's a big boy who gets to make those choices for himself. Don't try to influence them; that's way outside your authority and if he's like the ex-hubbies I know, he'll sense the ex-wife's attempts to manipulate from miles away. Even if you're not trying to. Best to avoid the appearance of meddling, even, though it's also important not to be bullied away.

> I know that is not my problem to fix or reason enough to not respond to this situation,

It's your responsibility to let him know your parental concerns. If you can go the extra mile and do it consideringly and without personal emotional baggage, all the better. It's also your responsibility to make known your concerns to the powers that can actually do something to help safeguard your kids.

And then the ball's in his court. Just keep your eye on things.

> but it breaks my heart when my kids are hurt.

Yeah, for sure. Watching an ex-spouse make terrible parenting choices is one of the most difficult things about divorcing. :(

> And I KNOW that is why I must do something because the potential for them to be hurt worse is greater if I do nothing, it just doesn't make it easier.

If you do the wrong thing, though, you make things even worse.

My overall advice: don't let your obligation to act for your kids push you into doing things that end up being worse for them... not even if it's his fault that your well-intentioned choices ended up being worse for them.

It ain't about fair and unfair. It's about the kids, which usually involves your pride taking one on the chin from someone or other. :)

Scott

[Amy]

Thank you... very valid points... here is the update. We talked today, it was good to wait a couple days so the both of us could talk reasonably. I was definately upset and I realize that I can't control him and don't want to. But I didn't want to ignore what had happened either. Balance is one of the issues I struggle with. So we talked and I got to hear more of the details of what happened and we discussed a plan incase of emergencies.

He suggested always having his medication on his person, daily AA meetings (he has been irregular in attendance lately), and switching the days we drop off and pick up because of traffic. I suggested a cell phone, 3 emergency contacts that can help if I can't be reached and calling me sooner rather than later. Then my counselor called and we discussed adding communication with another adult (mainly his mother) if he needs to leave the situation to destress and when he will be back and that he discusses the plan with his healthcare provider. This plan will be something that him, his mother and me agree on.

*Don't let your obligation to act for your kids push you into doing things that end up being worse for them*

That is exactly why I asked for advice here and through my counselor and lawyer, because I don't want to over react and I wanted to set clear boundries that we both think are reasonable and fair so not to make it worse for the kids. He doesn't have a PO and I felt like contacting authorities was too much, but I wanted to make sure I was taking the situation serious enough without over reacting. Because I know that emotions can make me do/say things that aren't thought through rationally. So that is why I have waited to act until I could talk it over with him and my support system.

PS... My counselor agreed with you on the abandonment issue too (that would be my own issues coming up again, she helped me concentrate on what did happen rather than what could of or might happen) Thanks :)

PSS... How was your show on sat?

[Steve]

I was faced with a similar situation when I first got custody of my daughter 4 years ago. Through the courts there was an order established that my daughters mother was allowed supervised visits. Either I got to choose who was to supervise or she could opt to pay a court approved supervisor.

I say you need to be responsible for your kids safety and wether he chooses to see them or not is up to him.

[Joann]

yes it is your responsibility to keep your children safe and believe me no matter how old your children are they know when something is not right. He is the only person that can fix himself. He left those kids with his mother so he can go and do what he wants. If i were you I would remove visitation from him especially when he is not well enough to take care of them. Their safety and well being come first no matter what!!!

[Delaine Moore]

You need to face the fear in the eyes and do whatever you need to do to protect your kids. I too kept hoping my ex's problems would 'go away'....

...but I'll tell you, they DON'T.

And the knot in your stomach will grow.

And if something ever happens to your kids, you won't forgive yourself.

Best to you,
Delaine